Do you believe it is possible for a “spanko” to truly be punished/disciplined by a spanking? If so, how can something they like (a spanking) be turned into something they wish to avoid? If you don’t think it is possible, than what do you think the point of so-called “discipline spankings” is and do they actually motivate BAD behavior?
This topic came to mind last week as we watched Parker and Brinlee get grilled on their blog by vanillas… some of whom made the point that spanking can’t be discipline if you like spanking. A logical enough sounding opinion, and in fact one that is shared some spankos. A complicated issue for sure, but we decided to tackle it. Turned out really well too. An excellent Roundtable discussion and a big thank you to all that took the time to share.
Let’s start the Wrap-Up by taking a look at the Quick Response Poll results.
Do you believe it is possible for a “spanko” to truly be punished/disciplined by a spanking?
Yes, for sure. ~ 77%
Probably. ~ 11%
Not sure. ~ 2%
Probably not. ~ 9%
No way. ~2%
The readers of A.S.S. are obviously mostly spankos, so these results aren’t too surprising. This question isn’t asking about a personal view… can it be punishment *for you*… and it’s also merely asking if it’s “possible.” Most spankos know other spankos that are in a discipline relationship, even if such a relationship would never work for them. The net result is an extremely one sided poll.
Honestly think though if we asked the same sort of question to a vanilla crowd, the responses would tilt heavily in the opposite direction.
The neat thing about this week’s Roundtable discussion is the comments. Not a lot of them these week, but some great insights. Really worth a read this week and we do hope you’ll check them out.
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Poppy said: I do understand the dichotomy of spanking a spanko for discipline and all I can say is that it works but I
think it takes a clever Top and a willing bottom. I recently had a discipline spanking that did change me, it had a real impact that I think will last. (Fingers crossed it does.)
For me it needed to be several spankings, I did the forbidden act and I got spanked for it. I could do it as much as I wanted but I got spanked every time. Except it was the cane rather than the spanking. And then I had to go to the corner for ages. I really need to write properly about this to make sense. I think it ended up as a Pavlovian thing. I would do the act either watching the cane or watching the table I would end up over. The awareness of what was coming next ruined the act. I also get spanked a lot by my lover for other things so it was not like this was my only access to spanking. I am sorry I have done such a rambling reply. I will write it better soon.
~We think you wrote an excellent response! You’re talking about consistency and the impact it has. You KNOW if you do x, you’re getting a spanking you don’t want… and that has a powerful impact. Think you make a great point about needing a clever top too. You obviously enjoy certain kinds of spankings, and thus it takes some thought and insight to find a spanking that will motivate you. That’s not a simple thing.~
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Cass said: For the longest time I thought that DD couldn’t *really* work…and “spankos” enjoying spankings was one
of the reasons. However, I now believe that it *can* work.
There are plenty of ways to make a discipline spanking undesirable for a “spanko”…a scolding that evokes strong (sometimes painful) emotions…using implements that are reserved for discipline and which a spankee would otherwise avoid…severity of the spanking that goes well beyond what the spankee finds enjoyable…no warm-up or slow built-up in intensity so there is no drifting off into “sub space” (which really is what makes the harder spankings enjoyable; take that out of the equation and it plain *hurts*)…no playfulness or comforting before or during the spanking, etc.
Bottom line is that in order to work, a discipline spanking needs to be distinctly different from a non-discipline spanking. Also…once a spankee has experienced the joys of a “good girl” spanking…they’d much rather have more of those than the discipline. I also believe it’s crucial that the spankee has the opportunity to have all her spanking needs met without having to get into serious trouble. This might include hard spankings…and even role-play “discipline-spankings”. If, on the other hand, the only surefire way to get the spanker’s attention is to misbehave, then that will lead to more of the bad behavior and ends up being counterproductive.
So yeah…I do think discipline spankings can be true punishment for a “spanko” (and discourage unwanted behavior). They take a skilled disciplinarian…and a spankee that is open to real discipline.
~You made several excellent points. A discipline spanking “plain hurts” while other types of spankings offer aspects that make it likable is a simple way to explain it to a vanilla friend. The emotional aspect of discipline is the more
complex part of the answer, but it is definitely important. Could maybe boil that one down simply too, ‘it doesn’t feel good to disappoint someone you respect and care about.’ Think most vanillas could grasp that.~
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Hermione said: I don’t believe that spanking would be an effective form of discipline for me, and it probably would actually encourage me to do the forbidden thing, in order to get spanked for it.
The other things mentioned above – scolding, cornertime – are separate acts, and have nothing to do with spanking. Yes, scolding is a strong deterrent for me. I will do anything to avoid unpleasantness and raised voices. But that’s not a spanking. Ron agrees that spanking is a reward for me, only to be administered if I’m good. Punishment is no spanking.
~Interesting… we have always including things like scolding and corner time as part of the entire discipline spanking package. Certainly understand your perspective though. The idea of using spanking *as a reward* definitely has benefits too. Ideally we like the ’stick’ of a discipline spanking and the ‘carrot’ of a good girl spanking. Making that stick no spanking at all though, hey that certainly works for some too.~
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s. said: Yes it is possible to discipline a spanko, and no it does not necessarily create bad behavior. What may or may
not work for someone is not an absolute for all.
Some excerpts of my own writing on the topic:
The human mind is capable of separating contexts of situations. That’s first and foremost. I do think we can (from both sides) experience a ’satisfaction’, for whatever reason, from a punishment — but that is different from “pleasure”
Context of a spanking makes a huge difference in what makes that spanking a “discipline” spanking. An analogy I can use is that going to the gynecologist and having the doc mess with my girlie bits vs having R do so are two vastly different contexts. I don’t enjoy gyno visits from a sexual standpoint. And the doctor, if he is a man, may enjoy womanly parts from a sexual standpoint but is able to put the sexual side of it out of his mind to function in his role — but he may go home later to his wife and do the same things for his wife in the context of their sexual relationship. (Or even if he was his wife’s gyno, surely while performing doctorly duties on her he can put the sexual context outta his mind) .
Why can’t the same be for spanking and one who can function in a disciplinarian role as well as outside of it? Isn’t possible that some can push the sexual aspect out of mind, due to their personalities, while others can not?
Discipline actually involves way more than just the physical act of spanking anyway. Spanking is a very small component, a tool used to help make it work. Spanking alone is not what discipline entails. If it was all there was to it
then, no, it would most likely not work at all.
-sarah
~We’ve talked quite a bit about this topic with you in person… and think your gyno analogy is an excellent one (or a guy turning his head and coughing). One counter we have heard to this point goes… yea, but you don’t day dream about gyno visits, you don’t read and write stories about gyno visits, you don’t watch videos… etc-etc. Well, first of all… how do they know that? lol… you might do ALL of those things! Seriously though, it goes back to context and separating things.
If your gynecologist is smoking hot, you might indeed have little day dreams. But, your mind will filter out the ‘bad stuff.’ It doesn’t hurt, nothing is cold, the lights aren’t bright, there isn’t a nurse standing right there… etc-etc. He also isn’t married with two kids… and your husband isn’t at home waiting to ask “how did it go.” It’s not that you’re not aware of all these realities… just since a fantasy is fake, there is no need to keep it real.
A discipline spanking can be the same. The reality is a good deal of real pain and a tough emotional experience. The fantasy doesn’t touch on those things. It’s just the positives of the dynamic… having someone there, that firm but fair hand, a strong and caring shoulder… etc. It certainly possible to day dream about things we don’t REALLY want though (and bus loads of cheerleaders can be extremely grateful for that, lol).~
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Isabella said: I think that it is possible for someone who likes
to be spanked to benefit from a discipline spanking.
But, for that to happen, there has to be an established relationship that goes deeper than simply spanking. There needs to be an emotional connection that will make disappointing the spanker almost as bad as the actual spanking. That being said, it is also important to make sure that misbehavior is not used as a tool to get a spanking, or even to get the spankers attention and affection.
So, all of that to say that, yes, I think discipline spankings can be useful to someone who likes spankings as long as they are used properly.
~The emotional side of this is a lot more difficult to explain, but that really is the most important part of it. Vanillas focus only on the spanking part, but that is actually just the final piece of the process.~
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littlebrat said: Yes I definitely without a doubt believe that a spanko can be truly punished/disciplined with a
spanking.
Anyone who knows me pretty much knows that I am a spanko 100%. I LOVE spanking.
However, I seriously try to aviod discipline spankings. There is a whole different realm to a discipline spanking than a playful or erotic one. For one it usually involves a good deal of lecturing/scolding. He is disappointed in me and I am disappointed in myself. I have done something wrong and being wired as a spanko, pretty much the only thing in addition to the lecturing that is going to let me forgive myself is the spanking that follows. It is usually harder, a lot longer depending, and I am in search of forgiveness to “wipe the slate clean” so I can forgive myself for what I have done. I am truly sorry that I have done something and I need the discipline to forgive myself and feel that he once again believes in me. I am going to be taken to a very vulnerable state that I don’t want to share with just everyone and I think that relationship is a very intuned one that brings with it a lot of trust, understanding and respect.
Discipline is a very serious matter to me. It is not something that you play with. For me it works but I think you really need to be “wired” for it, and I don’t believe everyone is. If you aren’t wired for it then I believe it is a game to you. You get disciplined, you purposely repeat the offense or throw it back in the Top’s face so they discipline you again. To me, that is total disrespect and I don’t think you are wired for it then, I think maybe you just like harder spankings and therefore, just ask for a harder spanking, and should forget the discipline type because it is nothing more than a game to play. That is not to say that won’t very possibly repeat an offense you have been disciplined for but not because you purposely thought I am going to do this so I can get another harder spanking. We do fail at times, sometimes several times with a particularly hard issue we are trying to deal with. Tops know the difference though, and you will still be spanked harder for each repeat offense but sometimes if the issue is a particulary hard one you are trying to accomplish, that is just what it takes. I still believe in the end you will
accomplish it and it will be the increased spanking that helps you to get to that goal.
Consistency is the key and both being on the same page and both being serious about it is what it takes.
~We do know you, and you are indeed 100% spanko. You do love spankings too, even playful discipline type role-play spankings. Yet, when it comes to *real discipline*… and we have talked with you at times when you’re in trouble… your entire personality changes. It’s no longer fun and playful and relaxed, instead you are… well… almost depressed. You are obviously disappointed in yourself, and you are dreading what is coming. It’s not really the spanking that you’re dreading either, but rather the interaction that comes with it… basically you being called onto the carpet and made to answer for your decisions. Again think this comes back to the emotional part of it, which is something most vanilla people don’t consider.~
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Suzy Says: Yes, I do. I am very much an example of this because I adore spankings, erotic, playful, hard, even caning excites me… but one look from Todd and the mere mention of getting a discipline spanking… brings me to tears. It’s not fun, it’s not nice, it’s hard and makes me feel really really bad. I feel like I have disappointed him and because I love and respect and care about how he feels, that tears me up. I can take LOTS of hard wood paddle spankings in fun or at parties without complaint. But I am miserable, sad, and yes.. even fearfully dreading the 10 discipline spanks with the Mean Old Wood Paddle that I get if I break a ‘rule’ that results in a discipline spanking.
Todd and I have helped some girls over the years in disciplinary relationships and while most of them are sincere and devoted to the DD dynamic.. there have been one or two who have shown themselves to be more in it for the HARD spankings than they really were for any positive progress to be made. We always try to explain at the beginning of any such relationship, that we are fine giving them the kind of spankings they want… whether it be a mild one, or a hard one.. but that request is separate from the discipline and the discipline spankings need to be real and need to be something they try to avoid. But after some time, like all things that aren’t real, it becomes more and more obvious that it’s not a DD relationship they are looking for but a regular spanker to give them HARD spankings that they want and when they want and all they have to do is break their rules to get them.. that’s when it just doesn’t work.. so in the end it’s not really
getting them what they want afterall.
The main foundation of ANY spanking relationship, DD or otherwise,
should be trust and honesty, and if communication always includes these two things, everyone is better for it.
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Todd Says: Yes, I believe a spanko… even one that loves-loves-loves to be spanked… can be given a spanking that is truly a punishment, and truly something they will work to avoid in the future. I’ve seen it with my own eyes, so I am *sure* it is possible. Not possible for everyone of course, but certainly it is for some.
I think the key is making the something they like into something they don’t. The most obvious way that is done is making the actual spanking completely unpleasant. How that is done depends on the spankee. In general though, a spanking that starts on the bare bottom with zero warm-up (it’s a hard spanking from spank #1) is a really good start. Can throw in an implement (wood paddle) too, and very few spankees are going to want a spanking like that.
There are other more specific things that can be done… state of undress, position, spanks on upper/inner thighs… and so on. A lot of ways to make a spanking unpleasant and thus something to avoid.
To really work though, there needs to be more than just the spanking going on. There needs to be an emotional connection that motivates the things that come with a discipline spanking… the scolding/talk and disappointment that comes with it.
Even the rare spankee that likes really-REALLY hard spankings doesn’t want to truly disappoint someone she cares about and respects. I’ve given a spankee a playful spanking that was HARDER than a real discipline one… and the playful one was fun for her, and the discipline one left her a crying and emotionally spent.
The key is making the discipline spanking something that isn’t enjoyed. It does take time to do that, it’s not always obvious and it definitely isn’t one size fits all. If she is open to the discipline dynamic though and the connection is there, it certainly can work… even if she really enjoys other types of spankings.
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All the pictures in this week’s Roundtable Wrap-Up come from Chelsea Phieffer. Excellent site that is well worth checking out. Can watch 10 minutes worth of videos totally free too… with zero obligation.